Sec 5.008 (c) A seller or seller's agent shall have no duty . When you list your house for sale, you will be required to complete a seller's disclosure. However, being a seller, you should disclose all the necessary information about the house, including polybutylene pipes. It's money well spent if it saves you a $20,000 bill. In this case, real estate investors would be your best bet as they are the ones looking for homeowners selling homes in poor conditions. People could easily break these laws if they choose not to disclose information about their usage of polybutylene pipes on their property. Sec 5.008 of the Texas Property Code is below. Polybutylene plumbing is bad because it breaks off into the water supply. Therefore, having knowledge about polybutylene pipes and ensuring that you appropriately deal with them is very important. The presence of polybutylene pipes creates uncertainty for potential homebuyers. even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. The seller's disclosure statement matters to potential buyers, so you should be honest about lead, pests, repairs, and more. A buyers mortgage lender will possibly require more extensive inspections that hold up your closing. How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? Does a Seller Have to Disclose Polybutylene Pipes? Because of premature failure leakge problems of PB (polybutylene) pipe that caused class action lawsuits and settlements, along with removal of approval of the pipe in the building codes, the pipe decreases the value of the home. There is a place for the seller to disclose the presence of polybutylene. The final eligibility deadlines for this class action expired many years ago. Check for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the basement or attic. The contractor will repair and repaint those sections before finishing the job. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. So, if you're absolutely in love with a home with polybutylene piping, have your real estate agent ask the seller to either . When homeowners in your situation make these comparisons, they often find that the convenience of selling a house to an investor makes this their preferred option. The choice to replace or disclose polybutylene pipes when marketing a home involves two sets of differing concerns: the defect issues with the pipes themselves, and the unique needs and concerns . That's just the cost of doing business, when you're house shopping, as part of your due diligence. What you are complaining about is the process working. The inspection money has now saved you from buying a house you don't want. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Polybutylene water supply pipes broke in the ground outside homes causing soil erosion and foundation damage (if this has already happened to your property, here is an article about selling a house with foundation problems). Supporting this claim, the industry points to the extensive and continued successful use of polybutylene plumbing in Europe and parts of Asia, where different pb connecting systems are used. All I can really say is good luck! Some states' disclosure laws are more comprehensive than others, and if a feature isn't on the list the seller may not be required to speak up. It was particularly widely used in the sunbelt states. PB piping has not been used for drain and sewer lines, nor vent piping. home buying If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. Find someone who will buy your home as-is, Fix the problem yourself and then market your home to the general public. Which Way to Go when Selling a Home with Polybutylene Pipes? Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. The second option will take more time and money but it may result in a higher price for your home. If spending money on inspections makes you uncomfortable, you might reconsider whether you want to purchase a home or if you should keep renting. PB-1 is a high molecular weight, linear, isotactic, and semi-crystalline polymer. If the Seller refuses to return your money, you would have to file a lawsuit against the Seller. More information about the settlement is available at www.SpencerClass.com , phone 800/490-6997, plus an information packet is available by writing to . This was dismissed in 2018 "with prejudice", meaning it can't be refiled. When temperatures rise and fall, poly pipes will expand and contract. What they do is they buy the property, which they can upgrade, make the required repairs, and then sell the homes making good profits on their investments. The square footage of your home (but if you do disclose, you are liable for the accuracy of the square footage). This type of plastic resin was commonly used in the manufacture of water piping, from about 1978 through the end of 1995, and is known to flake off and deteriorate after several years of use. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. However, you cant repair polybutylene pipes because these pipes production ceased quite a long time ago. To learn more about dealing with mold or water damage, you can read our other articles Selling a House with Mold Problems and Selling a Flooded or Water Damaged House. Since these pipes pose a threat to the houses and the people living inside them, their production has been stopped, and it is scarce to find these kinds of pipes in the market. How far should stair nosing stick out? In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. Cross-Linked Polyethylene (PEX) is basically a plastic material used to make pipes for water systems in our houses. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? First, the buyer would need to be comfortable purchasing a home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes. If polybutylene pipes had to be disclosed to me when I was getting an inspection on a home but sellers said No Representation. Locating and working on existing pipes requires cutting holes in your walls. Citizens Property Insurance does not cover claims that pertain to these pipes. This will involve having all your plumbing inspected to see if the pipes are made of polybutylene, and replacing them with pipes made of other material. If you find the tell-tale gray tubing, look for the code "PB2110" printed on it. Click here for more information. Polybutylene pipe health risks and product failures led to a successful class-action lawsuit in 1995. Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. >>. I emailed our Realtor and she never responded. The realtor actually removed all the copper piping to scrap for meth money, and replaced it all with polybutylene piping. The insurance usually covers the cost of damages to the home, but not damages caused by natural disasters or fires if they have polybutylene pipes. << Does a home inspector look for code violations? Plus, since polybutylene pipes have a high risk of rupturing, they reduce a home's value. Buy a new build with 10 year warranty. Therefore, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money. People looking to buy a new house and who work with brokers will be looking at several properties that preferably dont have these kinds of pipes. These pipes were last used in new construction in the mid 90s and are now around 20 years old. You will have to spend a lot of time, money, and energy trying to repair the pipes. Our expertise shows in every repipe we do and is with you every step of the way. Initially, polybutylene pipes were popular because they were: Inexpensive Flexible Easy to install foreclosures Surely she should have at least reminded us to look in the Disclosure statement to find out? How does repiping a house work? Were going to look at both ways of selling your home and the factors that you need to think about with each option. What is the difference between PVC and ABS plumbing pipe? Of course, only specific insurance companies can answer that question, for your specific circumstances. Woe is me. Poly-pipes are well known in the industry for their propensity to fail. Seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes in the Disclosure Statement My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. Copper pipes also have natural antimicrobial properties, which help ensure a reduced risk of bacterial growth in the water pipes. May be stamped "PB2110". There are no showings or open houses. So- if you are considering a sale in the future, and your home was built at a time when poly pipes were commonly used (late 1970's through mid 1990's), we'd highly recommend being proactive and getting your plumbing checked out. Your average homeowner would not know polybutylene pipes from any other type of plastic plumbing. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. How would your realtor know that if it was mistakenly checked on the disclosure. What can you do if you buy a home and later discover something was omitted from seller disclosure? And when they do burst, you'll risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings. What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? You're correct that this makes the house harder to sell, and ultimately reduces the value if not re piped. When used outside to bring water to your home, polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color. homebuying Buying Or Selling A Home With PB Pipes: Polybutylene piping affects a home's value. This means that you dont have to wait to find out if your buyer can get their final loan approval. Most of these forms require the seller to disclose information related to polybutylene pipes. We completed all our inspections (structural, septic, water, pest, home), the bank ordered the appraisal, the Realtor hired the attorney. I've got it! having polybutylene pipes and fittings that haven't leaked yet. Home inspectors wont do that. and When was polybutylene pipe banned? This can be a good idea if you have made up your mind about purchasing the house because it is better to get the re-piping done before moving into the home. Nationwide, more than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on us to safely and neatly remove polybutylene from their homes. The primary manufacturers of the pipe were Shell Chemical Company, Qest (pronounced "quest"), and Vanguard. They work with property values in your area every day. Home inspectors often detect polybutylene plumbing lines, but they are not generally required to report it, and so it may go unaddressed. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? What about polybutylene ("poly") pipes - are sellers/agents required to disclose? If a seller does disclose square footage, it has to be accurate but there's no obligation for a seller to make the information public. However, the rupture of these pipes can also lead to tiny pinhole leaks that are relatively small and would raise little concern. if the sellers had disclosed the pipe material in the beginning. This can be a problem in the long run, as in the case of floods, your insurance will not cover the damage costs, and the burden will have to be on you. Consumer protection laws are getting stricter across the US. Well Crap, Polybutylene Pipes in a House I'm Looking at Buying #10628138 10/28/15. The seller: Nearly every U.S. state has laws requiring sellers to advise buyers of certain defects in the property, typically by filling out a standard disclosure form before the sale is completed. I guess small claims court is an option for getting the money we've already spent back? Code requirements cited may have been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your area. Furthermore, even if your poly pipes never leak, its presence will unfortunatelyimpact your home value and may affect yourhomeowners' insurance policy. We never would have ordered any of these inspections, appraisals, etc. for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors. They intend to sell the house right away after repairs are made. She wants her X-thousand(s) of dollars from you and that's her priority. You could easily run afoul of these laws if you arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes in your home. Mortgage lenders will not lend money on a property based on its estimated value that the house will have after repairs are made by the new owner. So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. What are the pipes sticking out near my water valves? Enter a valid a 10-digit phone number as ###-###-####. However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. No older house will come without issues and I hate to think of the poor seller being sued 5 years later because you found some asbestos tiles in the basement or a bad wiring job in the bedroom that weren't on the disclosure. However, in some states, residential property disclosure forms have to be utilized when selling their home. But I'm not sure how we could find that out. You and your family dont have to leave home and cool your heels somewhere while people are walking through your home. Polybutylene pipes would qualify as a material defect. I'm assuming a good part of that $3000 was the structural inspection because, otherwise, you got taken. What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? By the 1990s, however, problems had begun to surface. Now that weve looked at the options for selling your house with polybutylene pipes, you can apply them to your circumstances. They were often sold under the brand name Quest, and can be referred to with a variety of terms; including PB, PB-1, poly-pipes, or poly-b pipe. Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. The second option would be to fix the issue related to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home on the market. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. In prior litigation, the industry behind polybutylene plumbing systems claimed failures were not due to the polybutylene tubing itself, but instead due to installation issues and inappropriate pipe connectors. By that time millions of homes had already been built using these pipes. Even if you get a section of polybutylene pipe where the leakage or fracture is repaired, another major fracture is most likely found in a different area. We're also wondering if they made a past claim to the small claims settlement--that would prove they knew. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? If you decide to replace Polybutylene pipes in your home, that is good. We've done the research and found that not only would damages be costly if the pipes burst, but we would also have a hard time selling the house in the future or even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. To find a minuscule crack in the polybutylene pipes, one would need a very efficient plumber, and even then, it would be not easy to identify. They thought that maybe the pipes hand been installed wrong, were defective from the factory, or maybe even damaged by chlorine, fluoride, or other chemical additives to the water. The time that this will take from the initial inspection to the close of the sale of your home will probably range from 3 to 4 months. Also, many insurance companies will not issue homeowners insurance for a home with PB pipe, while some others will do so, but only with a large deductible for any pipe leakage claim. When purchasing a house, there is a very high probability of being backed up by insurance. It would be best to select the right contractor for the job. ; M.B.A.; J.D. Disclaimer: we aren't lawyers, and aren't providing any legal advice here. It is estimated that a lot of homes built during that time still have the original plumbing in place. If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. Here's what the law requires on a seller's disclosure in Wyoming. They will keep the property and rent it to tenants. Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? Either copper pipe or PEX tubing are suitable repipe materials, but we find the vast majority of our customers replace their poly pipes with PEX tubing. There were lawsuits including a class action lawsuit involving the pipes and disclosure issues. They are regularly looking for homeowners selling a house in poor condition as is. We've even seen sales fall through, when homeowners didn't know they had poly plumbing, but it was found during inspection. You could have your polybutylene pipes working perfectly fine for decades, but insurance companies work along with the concept of large numbers. There are words that strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one of them is polybutylene. How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? If you are the listing broker and you or your seller knows the property has polybutylene or Kitec plumbing systems, it's pretty obvious - you must disclose the fact to the buyer just as you are required to . Then choose the best offer and quickly close on your home within a couple of weeks, skipping the inconveniences and upfront expenses of a traditional real estate sale. Interior pipes are white and can be confused for other types of piping. I went back over our original contract and in the Disclosure Statement the seller checked "plastic" instead of "polybutylene." https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. Privacy Policy. We perform many polybutylene repipe quotes for sellers planning a sale - or even for buyers, who want to factor repipe costs into their offers: even when there has been no history of PB pipe failures. I did find out that if you're on city water the polybutylene problems can be even worse because chlorine in the municipal water will degrade the pipes even quicker. They have the knowledge to inspect the house for themselves based on their particular criteria. Additionally, it has become very common for sellers to either make concessions for a buyer to re-pipe after closing or to re-pipe the home themselves before the sale. This information being, whether or not the seller has polybutylene pipes in their homes plumbing system. This way you can decide which method is right for you. Anyone who buys a home with Polybutylene or Kitek or such is simple unhinged or has an unhinged . Fill out our Request a Cash Offer form to get a few offers from competing real estate investors working in your area and vetted by our reputation standards. You'll need evidence that shows two things: 1) that the water damage existed prior to your purchasing the house; and 2) that the seller knew of and did not disclose the existing, or prior, water damage. My house is more than 125 years old, and I dread having to sell it to someone like this. PEX pipes last a very long time, and over the years, people have faced little to no issues with these pipes becoming fragile, breaking, and leaking. In the US, it has become generally accepted that the failures are most likely due to chemicals in municipal water supplies reacting with polybutylene - and this is one of the primary reasons why homeowners won a largeclass-action lawsuit against Shell Oil (who manufactured and marketed the polybutylene resin). If you're still not sure, call us. Another option is to replace polybutylene pipes with copper pipes. Why is Your Water Heater Leaking From Overflow Pipe? 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