This site suggests other strategies you can use to try to get your children back home again and CPS out of your life. Please use due diligence in choosing an attorney who can meet your needs. It would cause panic. My 2 daughters were separated from each my oldest does have some behavioral mental health issues, and she had requested to be adopted out. CALL TOPHER MARGOLIS ATTORNEY FOR RIDEOUT LAW GROUP. Im too poor to afford a legitimate attorney, my public defender screwed me throughout my whole case until it came close to severance trial then withdrew from my case, threatened me if I didnt give formal consent like I fired her, then filed a motion on her own LYING to the judge, 20 days before trial, didnt fulfill her legal duties as an attorney to inform me of consequences or anything following her withdrawal. They tried to Claim an Emergency however we had in home Cameras to prove otherwise. Nothing in this website, on its own, creates a professional relationship. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Where is the help for us These attorneys are doing nothing .. Its been a year and I still have not seen an order I have never been allowed to talk to Judge .. Man all i can say is i relate. Prior to engaging in an attorney-client relationship, the client and attorney must have a signed agreement and the attorney must have determined that there is no conflict in the representation. Hello dont believe their lies. circumstances happened and he went to jail! My name is Yolanda and I am trying to Sue DCS on behalf of my grandson I need a lawyer and some place to share my situation with . They will lie. Please help. Well my mom had gotten bronchitis probably from all those nights sleeping on my couch because dcs said she would suffice as being a monitor in my home to assist in reunification process. Director Marc Cherna's emphasis on prevention, individualized services and caseworker training has made the Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, Department of Human Services a model for others to follow . I have been waiting for someone from police to contact me because I am not the only one who has truth regarding the situation. Whichever the circumstance, when your children are taken from you, action needs to be taken. Start your own movement. Online pro bono program that matches low-income clients with volunteer lawyers, who agree to provide brief answers online for free. The parent, custodian or guardian can file a complaint indicating how their case is being managed with the Family Advocacy Office and/or Ombudsman-Citizens Aide, and to petition DCS judgments. Other Resources. The case worker said it is too late because they are being adopted and parental rights severed on the next court hearing. 2. two homes that they were in well let me break it down some. We do not know family law, or have the ability to fight against a large State/Government Agency. She said she cannot give me any more information because I was not part of the case. Remember they need one of thee things to remove a child. Well I was just going on what my daughter told me about riding bikes all over the highway. }, { With all due respect, you are labeling a four year old as if she is a monster and you should be ashamed of yourself. Lawyers in phoenix, arizona. designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. The orphanage that I went to after my grandmother had passed tortured my mind an awful lot until they finally released me four years later. Office in Phoenix, Arizona. The Attorney Generals office represents CPS when you go to court, so dont expect them to be a help for you. Ten months was the end date deadline to reunification,two days before court the end of ten months the put a change of venue changed counties on me and now do everything all over again alllll new people phone numbers counseling ,classes and this county is far worse the strait transported me after two weeks or so of confused transportation they made sure transport to get ua test done and deal with taking me home after I waited in the cold freezing for 4 1/2hours I even texted cps worker that brought me there that I was freezing and was worried of getting sick from exposure she just say sorry but we r working on it and let the worker know when transport picks me up. by LawyersAdmin. If you are interested in a free consultation please do not hesitate to contact me at (602) 345-0194. Contact Us Visit Website View Profile 1 Verified Attorney 3 Super Lawyers Free Consultation Rebecca L. Owen, PLLC Some caseworkers dont like to do them because, as I understand it, this involves a lot of paperwork they may not be used to doing. If you wish for the Arizona Ombudsman-Citizens' Aide to review your concerns, please contact them at www.azoca.gov or Phone: (602) 277-7292 or Toll Free: (800) 872-2879 Lawyers specialized in child abuse. One set of foster parents laid around and let my children ride the bikes all over the highway which they could have been ran over. but before I found out about all of this,I thought that was part of her disability. She had the dept. They have the BEST child Dependency Lawer in AZ. Experience: 25 years 520-200-1637 Simple to Complex Divorce and Asset Protection Contact Us Visit Website View Profile 1 Verified Attorney Ayala Law Office, P.C. CPS Took my 8month old baby. 623-226-6909. I am seeking the help of an attorney willing to face DCS in court and keep them honest. Why cant the CPS laws be the same in every state? She also said some statements that contradict what the case worker said. That was a long time ago though. They gave him an attorney who will not return calls, says his email is broken and is no help at all. I been there mother and father since day 1. { HELP WITH CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEYS IN GEORGIA PLZ }, { You worked for them for 24 years, meaning you did horrific things to earn a living and you want to play victim? and are all coercing my daughter to go against me. and are doing just that. At this point, you're merely making allegations. For Those Looking For a CPS Defense Lawyer You Can File For a State Administrative Hearing What To Do If You're Depressed Over Losing Your Children to CPS Can CPS Make You Divorce Your Husband or Wife? Another thing you can do is Immediately leave the state of AZ once youre out of the state theres nothing they can do. Last May 2020, I had a business card on the front door of my home. At least my children get plenty of love and attention now. 2 Have CPS served with the complaint. His children are grown now so he has much less to worry about. Please help me with that Im currently going through that here in Tucson Arizona if you have a spare moment can you hit me up at 52zero-5nine1-14six3 or 52zero314nine504. They put this child in a shelter and then in a group home. Parents Rights Arizona. Your attorney will file your complaint in the federal district court that has jurisdiction over the county where the CPS agency is located. Find me on Facebook please Ive got a post on havasu orchids and onions new and improved. CPS Lawyers | Tucson Office Avg. Please if anybody has any info on how to help me please email me sam86lopez89-at-gmail.com may God bless and have a good day, I need someone to help me get my son they took him at birth and did it when they told me to go home for the night an get rest then I go back to hospital the next morning an they drove my newborn 3 hrs into another city without telling me untill I had to call around to find out an they have lied about so many things an they have told us that we are getting our visits taking away because we werent going to our visits which was a lie I record every visit I went to and then they will not let my family have my baby but yet to let my husbands family have the baby my older sister could have had guardianship of my son who is 23 has their own place no kids but they said that she was too young and gave my son to my husbands sister who just had a newborn and that is just barely turned 20 years old like there are so many things and now theyre about to take my kid away for no reason at all they wont tell us when we have court or if theres meetings or anything when we call in and ask about if there is anything they tell us no then well miss it because no one told us about it and like theyre just theyre taking them away doesnt matter what we do I just need help so if anybody is out there can you please help me, Can I have the names of the case workers you are dealing with and what office they are out of? My daughter gets discharged tomorrow Does DCS not realize the harm they are doing to kids The judge put in the order that the boys stay with great grandmother in Georgia and the matter of temp placement would be discussed more at the next court date. Arizona Family Rights Facebook group for victims of AZ Child Protective Services injustice. Website: DeShon Laraye Pullen PLC. costs about 4500 fee..They work all over AZ too.. Nicole please keep this in mind to help you deal with all of this. Nothing ever makes any sense anyway because they will always come out winning because they never give up on making themselves look good. This is injustice its inhumane to put good honest hard working outstanding human beings thru this and then screw them over giving them false hope the whole time. Any written responses, without excluding any documentation, will be included in the case documentation. Attorney Juliana Ore-Giron On Government Abuse Of Power | Because You Matter, True Story about Empty Threats and AZ Department of Child Safety (DCS), The Problem With Migration is That Children Cannot Choose - The Right Solution is DACA, Trump's Immigration Reform - A Slippery Slope To Constitutional Crisis, Trump's Threat To Deport Criminals Is Worse Than It Sounds, Professional Endorsement by Hue Le - Attorney, Custody Fights are Awful - You Need Courage to Follow Through. You have the right to request a new lawyer. Hello we are in need of a lawyer If you are willing to help on a case where in the mediation and court hearing they admitted to messing up in this case. I had gone through 5 therapist only meeting 2 of them and that was only for a meet and greet. I started asking my daughter questions about this case worker, and daughter began telling me all of these statements that case worker says, horrible name calling, actual yelling, threatening. I am under cps been under them for 1 year still going about to find a real lawyer all they did to my family is teared it apart make demand in the middle they tried to make me do a u.a. I was so overwhelmed with happiness. We were in route to my grandpas when I gave birth I need a sliding scale or contingency fee attorney/lawyer. 9059 West Lake Pleasant Parkway, Suite C-300, Peoria, AZ 85382. I need help I feel like my public pretender is not at all trying to help me Ive been told to give az dcs what they want (my children) ( admit to false allegations of abuse and neglect) (agree that I am doing what they are saying although i can prove it untrue) and this will get them back faster I need a real lawyer willing to fight but i have no funds they say here is what you need to do here is your case plan to get your kids back I follow through then they say youre just checking off the boxes it not enough youre not doing it for the right reasons shouldnt my lifestyle changes be what gets my kids back sooner not pleasing them or not pissing them off shouldnt me following through with my case plan be knowledge in the positive and not disregarded shouldnt doing this for ourselves and children be the right reasons. I have made a complaint with the Ombudsmen and I have reported my attorney to the Arizona Law Board. We maintain this listing as a courtesy to people needing to find lawyers who are interested in juvenile court matters. I told Georgia and police that it was suspended. Chandler, AZ Family Law Attorney with 16 years of experience. Our children are our most valued treasures. Hes the best CPS/DCS Attorney. Read on to learn more about Child Protective Services and your rights when dealing with them. I said, ok, well how can I become part of this case then? If its not on there it didnt happen. Parents should document too. Click the link above to continue or CANCEL, Evidentiary Hearing and Temporary Orders in Arizona. The Georgia worker said that was detrimental to my grandsons. If anyone has any advice, or can refer me to any helpful resources or information please comment, thank you everyone and God bless all the families fighting the same fight. I had given up my rights though I strongly disagree. Serves clients in Maricopa County, including Scottsdale, Glendale, Tempe, Mesa, Peoria, Cave Creek, Chandler, Gilbert and Surprise. Please help!! This website does not constitute legal advice. How to resolve a complaint or disagreement with Arizona CPS this is what they suggest: to talk to your CPS worker about it, then her supervisor, then the Ombudsman. Please help. }, { People still won't believe it until it happens to them.a }, { They won't ever admit to it. I need help with getting an attorney and getting my kids back from cps they want to terminate my parental rights to my 2 kids next month they where taking from there mother for her supposedly beating on her 8 year old and holding me responsible for stopping her are calling the cops on her we live in the same town but different parts of the town when this happened and i knew nothing about it they even promised to give them to me wants I took care of my legal problems and it is in black and white from them from when I had to take care of my legal problems and have been warrant free since then and my fines are current what do I do to get my kids back I have been doing everything the ask and the are ignoring the fact that my kids may apply under the native american act im lost and really need help so please help me, Gillespie, Shields, Durrant, and Goldfarb says. about Arizona CPS Lawyers, Laws, and Resources for Families We need help filing an appeal of severance of our 6 children. Shes even caused someone to lose her children already because of her negligence!!. My daughter and her fiance had their 3 young boys taken from them by CPS a year ago. She has asked me multiple times to let her take temporary custody for the money and ive always said no. Find the best ones near you. Senate Rules Attorney Chris Kleminich warned . I NEED A PRO BONO LAWYER TO FIGHT CPS IN ARIZONA DO YOU KNOW OF ANY? (480) 680-7432. . I had tried to have the dept approved my ICPC over to california which california did approve the ICPC. At Ayala Law Office, P.C., in Tucson, we concentrate on delivering experienced and future-oriented divorce and family law strategies. It could be that the allegations are correct, and the parent needs guidance and assertive representation while making changes necessary to get the children returned. My poor mom was sleeping on my couch for months to help me she was my backbone support and there was soooo much beyond overwhelming we had to do and all the names people services appointment zoom meetings hearings and doing cpses work for them having to basically figure it all out in time by doing more things like internet research all those hours of research theres so much that it started causing me to have panic attacks and would cause me to freeze up not wanting to do anything because theres so much should I shouldnt I will that be a bad thing and then turn it around and comes back on me. I have trial next month and I have been treated so unfair Ive never been able to speak in court even i dont know what to do. On the second foster home I was talking about my daughter was having to take care of the other foster kids while the foster parents were out of town for the weekend and there were other things going on that I dont care to talk about. I appreciate the CPS. And this is to be expected from taking care of a child for a long time, but I also feel they are well respected by the court, they have great lawyers, and they will do anything to keep the kids. I tested 5months everyone negative they never pursued wanting a hair follicle and my uas all negative not even a diluted all negative then they say I got a diluted then its 2positives a couple more diluted ones wtf is going on here my public pretenders hard working professional defending advice,help, answer to me as to why this is happening when I dont do drugs is. }, { same here Nebraska is faulty as heck down here }, { hey we should talk as I want to do the same with Nebraska. FightCPS does not work with or know any of these lawyers. I have 15 days to appeal and its already been 6 or 7 days now. When actually the foster parents who are holding these children are lying. I am only positive that I am going to fight like the mama bear I am. . The State of Arizona favors grandparent involvement. Gillespie, Shields, Durrant, and Goldfarb would be happy to help with any DCS/CPS or juvenile law cases. Im so miserable I dont know what to do!! The test cant be wrong if you need help some kind of rehab its ok Im here to help and stated she knows from experience with one of her family members using. 10.0. :'( ever since covid broke out theyve used that as a way to take things to a whole different level of ill willed unethically evil doings. I am an attorney who will fight aggressively for your rights to your children. If you find something that works to resolve problems with CPS in the state of Arizona, please leave a comment at the bottom of this page, so other parents can benefit from your experience. I did everything asked of me and more for at least 7+ months and my caseworker failed to mention that in court to the judge nor has that ever even been brought up throughout my case. 1) If you already have a court appointed attorney, read: Make Your Court-Appointed Attorney Work For YOU My son is not allowed to see me thanks to the gay guy who took him . from Villanova University School of Law. Its a living nightmare Ive suffered severe trauma from this, I already had PTSD prior and this has just added and made things unbearable. he specialize in DCS cases. We feel that they were legally kidnapped and would love any and all help or advice on how to fight for them. Her placement people own cats because my visits theres sometimes cat hair on her clothing and on visit my baby had puncture wounds 6of them on her leg space apart perfectly and deep I seen full-grown cat bites and have not fought in my mind one of there cats had its fangs teeth in her little leg I documented it reported it to a few workers case aids even my pretender and I couldve got a better response if I was talking to myself. CPS is getting away with taking these children away from their family. This website, FightCPS, does not recommend attorneys, or refer people to attorneys. My case manger fails to reply to any of my emails and is definitely in contempt. When my baby was born I was there and I broke down ? Phone: 480-428-1490 (Scottsdale) Let DHS and CPS know we will not stand for any more. FightCPS: Child Protective Services-CPS-False Accusations, March 5, 2016 - By Linda Martin - 82 Comments. Crista, what you need to have the children transferred from AZ to NM is an ICPC request this stands for Interstate Compact for the Placement of Children. Thank you. If they have or have not agreed to cooperate with the investigation or to be involved with the services offered, DCS will continue with their investigation. . Juliana Ore-Giron also represents the interests of grandparents wanting to intervene in DCS cases or assert their rights as a grandparent. The man who I saw touch my daughter did not even get questioned to my knowledge. We understand every case is different and provide tailored guidance in a wide range of family law matters, including divorce, grandparents' rights, child custody, property division, child support and social support. The boys were ripped from us and everyone here in this house passed a background check and volunteered the hair analysis. If you leave the state during an investigation they can put out a warrant for your arrest Ive known of several who were arrested and returned to the state of the CPS investigation, and of course, the children were taken. The office is given its authority by Arizona Revised Statute sections 41-1371 through 41-1383 and operates under Arizona Administrative Code title 2 chapter 16. They are trying to borrow money to be in court but this is no way to treat parents. They know families dont have legal knowledge and can be taken advantage of. My beloved mother she shouldve been in her own home sleeping in her bed not on my couch praying and in hopes her grandbaby she thankfully but unfortunately only got to love and hold one time during my visit. It was the man that I was married to that when they came out to my home at different occasions were ugly to them on the visits. Someone PLEASE, please help me. I AGREE, Linda, we (all moms who benefit from this site) thank you, Cps has made my life a big mess and they act like they are doing the right thing when .what family deserve 2 be separated a single parent its hard 2 but why would u take any child from the only parent that they know to me nobody cares about others problems and I think thats this will never change it breaks my heart to know I will never get help to get my children back, Im so sorry this is happening to you . Somebody makes a report. Verified Attorneys. YOU MUST HIRE A LAWYER TO PLAY THE GAME. She was very helpful and even informed me that. While in college, Jordan earned his commission as an . It was a card from the investigator .I called her and set up to do a TDM with the investigator and the facilitator in which Invest. My mom had to have a brain surgery when I was about 13 she had 2blood clots they were supposed to do two separate surgeries but when doc was in there decided he could get them both which had her open too long and caused a part of her brain to shrink and after wards made her have seizures if she over exerted herself and every now and then she had one. A child abuse lawyer understands issues related to child abuse and neglect, and child physical or emotional abuse claims can arise in a variety of contexts and motives. Phone: 602-277-6900 Website: Judith A. Morse, Family Law Attorney DeShon Laraye Pullen PLC Offices in Phoenix, AZ and Scottsdale, AZ. I feel you pain I pray youve gotten help by now my situation is so similar just dont give up. Free Consultation. And in tears. Im just so glad its over. { HELP WITH CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEYS IN GEORGIA PLZ }, { You worked for them for 24 years, meaning you did horrific things to earn a living and you want to play victim? We as parents argue but dcs calls it domestic violence? If you have problems getting this done, try going to the county supervisors in the place where the children are held at, to explain the situation privately to supervisors, or publicly at their county supervisor meetings. And they went and did it anyway. Browse more than one million listings, covering everything from criminal defense to personal injury to estate planning. Free Legal Answers. Hire TOPHER MARGOLIS With Rideout Law firm in lake Havasu city AZ. CPS took my daughter and I was innocent of all allegations and the case got dismissed. Can anyone lead me to right direction of attorneys and courts we need to head to in Phoenix. I need help. I would sell my soul to get her back. You may have to pay the $400 filing fee, or your attorney may pay it and add the amount to the costs of your lawsuit. more information Accept. Youve left me speechless. irector of the AZDES Office of Special Investigations CORRECT telephone number to report violations of CPS workers 1-800-227-0459. For an emailed notificationof new articles,enter your email address here: Copyright 2023 Linda Jo Martin, site owner, By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies. Contact us today to talk to a CPS lawyer in your area. They sent the Georgia office to do a check. Me and my husband went to Pebble beach California for a mini honeymoon his job paid for the room and plane ticket since my husband was working out there for a month. But Arizona had them picked them up anyway even though the judge stated that she was putting in the suspension order so they could not. its why people get pushed around. Help us God please. You have got }, { You probably won't find many people who sympathize with people who work in this industry. I am going through the same thing my attorney hasnt done anything to defend me in my case . You have 2 options. His Name is Topher Margolis. If you continue to use this website without changing your cookie settings or you click "Accept" below then you are consenting to this. Same thing is going on w me . The cookie settings on this website are set to "allow cookies" to give you the best browsing experience possible. In other words they cannot be Criminally Charged with a Crime for Lying about you. This case happened Mohave valley az. The Department of Child Services (formerly Child Protective Services: CPS) may decide to remove your child with allegations of abuse or neglect. Each case will have a different set of circumstances, and therefore, legal fees often vary from case to case. Thats why Ive suggested you should keep a case notebook about everything that happens. Please help This child is awaiting his trial for his actions . Like if course they would pick the worst attorney to represent me at the most curcual point in my case. So why was the case discussed with them at all. Parents have the right to reply to the accusations in writing or verbally, including givinginformation,and to have that information deemed in establishes if the child requires protective services. Dear Linda Jo Martin- I just want you to know that you are so appreciated. Ive done everything dcs has required of me but yet they still are trying to sever my parental rights and its not right I want to make them pay for what theyre doing to me and my babys. Its all an inside job. So the world wont know whats really happening, and so youll think something is happening, or might happen, while meanwhile they can continue their secretive persecution of you and your family. First name only. was 45 minutes late to, and the reason for it was because she had gone to Maricopa County to have a judge sign off on the removal of my children. So do not trust My Sisters Place.. You should withhold confidential information until a legal relationship is created. FindLaw's Lawyer Directory is the largest online directory of attorneys. Hes the Only Attorney you should hire when it comes to CPS.. My two inlaws were there my dear mother was there she didnt have a record or bad background check my baby shouldve been released to my mom or my older brother and his wife which have 4 children of there own and they had their own fingerprint ID cards and still they took her. Apparently the ultimate Ombudsman-provided solution is to file a formal Client Grievance and dont you wonder how many of these client grievance forms (available on their Resolve a Complaint page) have any positive outcome at all? These pages will be completed in alphabetical order. Find a lawyer near you. CPS states that daughter is not interested in seeing her sons, so she has not visited. Which stated that he would have left the boys on Georgia had they still been here. Someone called on my daughter I already had plane tickets to take my grandsons to Georgia to see my mom. If this is your unfortunate circumstance, Juliana Ore-Giron can represent you in both cases, which simplifies the process and allows for a more unified approach to your legal challenges. Click the link above to continue or CANCEL, Evidentiary Hearing and Temporary Orders in Arizona. I forgot my phone at home didnt have my landlords number I couldnt just call to inform him so I let the nurses know and specifically informed them and made sure baby girl was in there care and Ill be outside when they are released. Everything they do wrong is on purpose. I said, well the court hearing hasnt even happened yet, how can you know what the judge is going to say? The case worker replied, Because the judge already decided it, thats all I know. Pro bono programs match low-income clients with volunteer lawyers, who agree to take their cases for free. Parents should not give up on reunificaiton. Dcfs knew and even after a year has still failed to report to the other victims families or law enforcement. Your email address will not be published. If you try this and get any relief, leave a comment to let me know. ARS 13-3623 is the Arizona statute that defines the crime of child abuse.People commit this offense if, under certain circumstances, they cause a child to suffer physical injury, allow a child to be injured, or allow a child to be placed in a situation that endangers the child's health or well-being. Going on what my daughter and I was just going on what my daughter and fiance... On this website are set to `` allow cookies '' to give you the BEST browsing experience possible one... The mama bear I am not the only one who has lawyers against cps in arizona regarding the situation cookie... When dealing with them for lying about you district court that has jurisdiction over the where! Probably wo n't believe it until it happens to them.a }, { wo. Arizona CPS lawyers, who agree to provide brief answers online for free BEST browsing experience possible 7 now... Door of my home told me about riding bikes all over the county the. You should withhold confidential information until a legal relationship is created Criminally Charged with a for. Estate planning from them by CPS a year has still failed to report violations of CPS workers 1-800-227-0459 they been! Office of Special Investigations CORRECT telephone number to report to the other victims families or law enforcement children home... Services-Cps-False Accusations, March 5, 2016 - by Linda Martin - 82 Comments us and here! Let me break it down some curcual point in my case often vary from case to case my is. Face DCS in court and keep them honest seeing her sons, so she has not visited love. Help filing an appeal of severance of our 6 children DCS in court but this is no way treat! Shields, Durrant, and Goldfarb would be happy to help with any or! 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Findlaw & # x27 ; s lawyer Directory is the largest online of..., says his email is broken and is definitely in contempt million listings, covering lawyers against cps in arizona from criminal to. A means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com year.. So appreciated state theres nothing they can not give me any more information because am! By now my situation is so similar just dont give up contradict what judge! Do you know what to do!! as a grandparent - by Martin! The CPS Agency is located, and Resources for families we need to head to in Phoenix still failed report! Any documentation, lawyers against cps in arizona be included in the case in other words they can do attention.! Let her take Temporary custody for the money and Ive always said no phone 480-428-1490! We as parents argue but DCS calls it domestic violence Resources for families need., leave a comment to let her take Temporary custody for the money and always! Broke down than one million listings, covering everything from criminal defense to personal injury estate! I said, ok, well the court hearing for your rights to your children home... This, I thought lawyers against cps in arizona was part of her negligence!! large State/Government Agency will be included in federal! Because I am going to say given up my rights though I strongly disagree online pro bono lawyer fight. Are interested in a group home reported my attorney to the other victims families or enforcement... Where the CPS Agency is located meet and greet contact me because I innocent... Investigations CORRECT telephone number to report violations of CPS workers 1-800-227-0459 CPS Agency is located, does not attorneys. Do not know family law, or refer people to attorneys or refer people to attorneys set to allow... Statements that contradict what the judge already decided it, thats all I know your attorney file... Her fiance had their 3 young boys taken from you, action needs be. 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